It was almost 36 years ago but Carlo Ancelotti has already played at Jena. On 1st October 1980 under the floodlights, the talented AS Roma midfielder succumbed to a 4-0 defeat against Carl Zeiss Jena at the Ernst-Abbe Stadium. The defeat meant the Italian favourites and then defending champions exited the European Cup in the first round. Today, when Ancelotti returns to Jena in the first round of the DFB Cup as the new Bayern München manager (20:45 CEST), the 57 year-old will almost certainly remember that defeat all those years ago- at least Eberhard Vogel is convinced of that.
Now 73 years old, Vogel wore the number 11 shirt for Jena back then and helped them overcome the Roma Catenaccio after a 3-0 first leg defeat. Jena had 27 shots on goal, with Eberhard Vogel hitting the crossbar with one of them. In a DFB.de-interview, the man who holds the club record for most appearances in the East German Oberliga speaks to former teammate Thorsten Langenbahn about their shock win almost 36 years ago, the North East Regionalliga team’s chances against Ancelotti’s current side, and his passion for Bayern.
DFB.de: Mr Vogel, is Jena a bit of a sore spot for Ancelotti?
Eberhard Vogel: (laughs) I’m sure he breaks a sweat when he hears the name Jena.
DFB.de: How do you remember both legs in the first round of the European Cup in 1980 against defending champions AS Roma when you knocked out I Giallorossi with Jena?
Vogel: We lost 3-0 in the first leg at the Olympic Stadium in Rome, but we then won the home leg 4-0. That was sensational, it was football at its best.
DFB.de: What do you recall about Carlo Ancelotti playing as Roma’s number 10?
Vogel: He put Roma 2-0 up, Falcão scored the third after Pruzzo had put them in the lead earlier. We already knew that their team was full of huge names. Roma were a fantastic side. They kept it tight in defence, which was their biggest asset. But we also proved that they were beatable.
DF.de: After the 3-0 defeat in Rome, few believed in you. How was the reaction after the first leg back home in Thuringia?
Vogel: When we came back to Jena, everybody said, “Well that went well didn’t it…” So we swore that we would at least play well in the home leg. We had hoped that we would at least score a goal, maybe two if we were lucky. That we won 4-0 was unbelievable.
DFB.de: What advice did manager Hans Meyer give you all before the return leg?
Vogel: When you lose 3-0 away, you lose all hope of progressing to the next round. Hans prepared us psychologically and just tried to make the best of it. The 16,000 fans that packed out the ground wanted us to play good football. We weren’t a bad side; we actually had several internationals in the team.
DFB.de: How did you approach the game personally?
Vogel: I think I was the only one who had a bit of confidence and said, “Boys we’ve got a chance here!” The others were saying, “Hold on a minute, this is going to be a tough one.” (laughs) But we stopped whining and pulled ourselves together.
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It was almost 36 years ago but Carlo Ancelotti has already played at Jena. On 1st October 1980 under the floodlights, the talented AS Roma midfielder succumbed to a 4-0 defeat against Carl Zeiss Jena at the Ernst-Abbe Stadium. The defeat meant the Italian favourites and then defending champions exited the European Cup in the first round. Today, when Ancelotti returns to Jena in the first round of the DFB Cup as the new Bayern München manager (20:45 CEST), the 57 year-old will almost certainly remember that defeat all those years ago- at least Eberhard Vogel is convinced of that.
Now 73 years old, Vogel wore the number 11 shirt for Jena back then and helped them overcome the Roma Catenaccio after a 3-0 first leg defeat. Jena had 27 shots on goal, with Eberhard Vogel hitting the crossbar with one of them. In a DFB.de-interview, the man who holds the club record for most appearances in the East German Oberliga speaks to former teammate Thorsten Langenbahn about their shock win almost 36 years ago, the North East Regionalliga team’s chances against Ancelotti’s current side, and his passion for Bayern.
DFB.de: Mr Vogel, is Jena a bit of a sore spot for Ancelotti?
Eberhard Vogel: (laughs) I’m sure he breaks a sweat when he hears the name Jena.
DFB.de: How do you remember both legs in the first round of the European Cup in 1980 against defending champions AS Roma when you knocked out I Giallorossi with Jena?
Vogel: We lost 3-0 in the first leg at the Olympic Stadium in Rome, but we then won the home leg 4-0. That was sensational, it was football at its best.
DFB.de: What do you recall about Carlo Ancelotti playing as Roma’s number 10?
Vogel: He put Roma 2-0 up, Falcão scored the third after Pruzzo had put them in the lead earlier. We already knew that their team was full of huge names. Roma were a fantastic side. They kept it tight in defence, which was their biggest asset. But we also proved that they were beatable.
DF.de: After the 3-0 defeat in Rome, few believed in you. How was the reaction after the first leg back home in Thuringia?
Vogel: When we came back to Jena, everybody said, “Well that went well didn’t it…” So we swore that we would at least play well in the home leg. We had hoped that we would at least score a goal, maybe two if we were lucky. That we won 4-0 was unbelievable.
DFB.de: What advice did manager Hans Meyer give you all before the return leg?
Vogel: When you lose 3-0 away, you lose all hope of progressing to the next round. Hans prepared us psychologically and just tried to make the best of it. The 16,000 fans that packed out the ground wanted us to play good football. We weren’t a bad side; we actually had several internationals in the team.
DFB.de: How did you approach the game personally?
Vogel: I think I was the only one who had a bit of confidence and said, “Boys we’ve got a chance here!” The others were saying, “Hold on a minute, this is going to be a tough one.” (laughs) But we stopped whining and pulled ourselves together.
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DFB.de: Should Carl-Zeiss-Jena be inspired by this result, particularly with Carlo Ancelotti coming to Jena with Bayern?
Vogel: I don’t want to upset Jena, but this kind of result is simply not achievable at the moment. We were playing in the first division at the time; they currently play in the fourth division. That is a massive difference. We had a really strong team back then. Sure, they’ve started the season well with four wins in four, and their new manager Mark Zimmermann says, “We mustn’t fear playing against world class players.” But normally a fourth tier side like Jena can’t win a game like this.
DFB.de: What has to happen for this to be a cup shock?
Vogel: Bayern would have to completely collapse. If they go into this match too casually and don’t take it seriously enough, then Jena has a chance. Jena can also play football; we’re keeping our fingers crossed. I actually think that Bayern need to watch out a bit. But if Bayern play as they usually do, then Jena has no chance. So Ancelotti can go into this match feeling calm.
DFB.de: What do you make of Carlo Ancelotti on the touchline, when you watch him as Bayern manager on the television?
Vogel: It definitely suits him. I am also a huge Bayern fan and must say that he has a brilliant squad. You can only take your hat off to him.
DFB.de: So you’re a Bayern fan?
Vogel: I am indeed. I’d actually been to watch them ten times before they played in the DFB Cup here in Magdeburg. That was on 1st November 2000, FC Magdeburg vs. Bayern München.
DFB.de: You also created a shock and knocked out Bayern, this time as a manager.
Vogel: We showed as an Oberliga side that Bayern aren’t unbeatable. They had a strong team: Oliver Kahn in goal, Michael Tarnat, Thomas Strunz, Carsten Jancker, Paulo Sergio and many more, with Ottmar Hitzfeld as head coach. With that team we also didn’t say beforehand, “We’re going to win!” But we did it, winning 5-3 on penalties. That was of course a huge shock. It made Hitzfeld look stupid that’s for sure.
DFB.de: What did you tell your players before this mismatch?
Vogel: (laughs) I said that the best thing that could happen for would be if the opposition underestimated us. That’s the main thing. If a team like Bayern comes and approaches the game too relaxed, then you have a chance. If you can draw the game and take it to penalties, you can also win. That’s exactly what happened.
DFB.de: How do you think Jena will do against Bayern?
Vogel: I think they’ll lose 0-5. I don’t think Jena has a chance. For them it is important to play fairly and to take some experience from it. They have a lot of young players in their squad. But to cause an upset you also need a few experienced players. They have that in René Klingbeil and Manfred Starke, but they are only two men.
DFB.de: Why in your view will the record cup winners win by such a clear margin?
Vogel: The difference in class is simply too great. The Jena team just doesn’t have the quality. Yes, they won in the first round in 2015 against Hamburg, but HSV were a disaster last year. In the second round Jena were eliminated by Stuttgart. You first have to manage to beat a Bundesliga team, let alone Bayern München.
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