Matthäus: There’s been plenty of debate about that, but I could just have easily have slipped up in the closing stages of the game. But at the end of the day the match panned out differently after I went off, maybe because United took heart from it, I don’t know. Of course after I’d signalled to Ottmar Hitzfeld that I was tired and running on empty, he could have insisted that I stay on and see out the final ten minutes. I wouldn’t have gone off then. But it’s pointless thinking about all that now.
DFB.de: Bayern are again in a great position to get the better of Manchester United after drawing 1-1 in the Champions League first leg. Will they be able to see it through to the end this time at the Allianz Arena?
Matthäus: Bayern are the clear favourites going into the game, not just because of the first-leg result but also but also because of the quality and class they showed over there, and elsewhere. I can’t think of another team that have played so well and to such a high level as Bayern have for almost two years now. They’re totally dominant and it’ll be the same on Wednesday too. For a long time now Bayern have been able to dominate when they’ve been in a situation where they have to win at home.
DFB.de: How do you rate the current Manchester United side in comparison to past teams under Sir Alex Ferguson that were built around David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and Cristiano Ronaldo?
Matthäus: They’ve still got a lot of highly talented players in the squad, but haven’t been able to cope with Sir Alex Ferguson’s departure as smoothly as hoped. The new manager David Moyes is still getting used to treading in the huge footsteps he left behind. They also failed to bring through younger players in time when they were at their most successful, so at the moment we’re seeing a team that has passed its peak and it’s no coincidence that they’ve been struggling in all competitions.
DFB.de: Have Manchester United lost a bit of the aura and strength they used to have?
Matthäus: Man United still have a lot of very good, established internationals on their books, such as Wayne Rooney, Danny Welbeck, Antonia Valencia, Nemanja Vidic, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra and of course Robin van Persie, even if he’s still missing due to injury. However, it’s currently a different team to what we’ve been used to over the last 20 or 30 years. The fact that their fans cheer when they win a throw or a corner, as they did during the first leg against Bayern, is an indication of how their levels of expectation have fallen and that they don’t have a great deal of trust in the team anymore.
DFB.de: As treble winners, Bayern were the team to beat in European football at the start of the season and they seemed to be at the very top of their game. How do you rate them at this stage of the campaign?
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Matches between Bayern Munich and Manchester United have long been a classic in European footballing history, and the final the two sides contested in Barcelona 15 years ago is one of the most memorable in recent times. Lothar Matthäus was part of the Bayern side that lost 2-1 after conceding two stoppage-time goals on 26 May 1999 and the encounter remains one of the most painful moments of his career.
The two continental heavyweights have renewed acquaintances this year, drawing 1-1 in their Champions League quarter-final first leg in Manchester. Ahead of the return fixture on Wednesday (live on ZDF and Sky from 20:45), DFB.de editor Wolfgang Tobien spoke exclusively to Matthäus about the 1999 final, his views on the current state of both teams, Bayern’s development under Pep Guardiola and where the Bundesliga stands in the wake of German clubs’ achievements in the Champions League this season.
Furthermore, Matthäus analyses Germany’s chances ahead of the 2014 World Cup in Brazil, which kicks off on 12 June. He is well placed to do so, having appeared in five global showdowns himself - winning the title once - as well as being his country’s most capped player and being named Germany’s Player of the Year in 1999 at the age of 38.
DFB.de: Lothar Matthäus, Barcelona is one of the most beautiful and interesting cities in the world. Are you able to bring yourself to go there after the 1999 final?
Lothar Matthäus: Of course. Partly because it’s a beautiful city but also because Catalan people are very nice and friendly and it’s a great place to go shopping. On top of that it’s still a wonderful place to watch football. What happened to Bayern Munich there against Manchester United in 1999 is part of the history of a very successful club and a very successful playing career. As disappointing as that experience was I wouldn’t want to forget about it, even if I would have liked to have left Barcelona holding the Champions League trophy.
DFB.de: It’s now 15 years since that match. Has hindsight helped you evaluate how Bayern managed to let a 1-0 lead slip in the last three minutes at the Nou Camp?
Matthäus: It was an unbelievably important game and you can never be certain of anything in a Champions League final. Maybe our thoughts had already started wandering to the post-match celebrations and we were lacking the necessary concentration at the end. The fact is however, that Teddy Sheringham and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, who scored for United, were more focused on the ball at those two corners and reacted more quickly than our defenders did.
DFB.de: You were criticised at the time for wanting to be substituted off too soon.
Matthäus: There’s been plenty of debate about that, but I could just have easily have slipped up in the closing stages of the game. But at the end of the day the match panned out differently after I went off, maybe because United took heart from it, I don’t know. Of course after I’d signalled to Ottmar Hitzfeld that I was tired and running on empty, he could have insisted that I stay on and see out the final ten minutes. I wouldn’t have gone off then. But it’s pointless thinking about all that now.
DFB.de: Bayern are again in a great position to get the better of Manchester United after drawing 1-1 in the Champions League first leg. Will they be able to see it through to the end this time at the Allianz Arena?
Matthäus: Bayern are the clear favourites going into the game, not just because of the first-leg result but also but also because of the quality and class they showed over there, and elsewhere. I can’t think of another team that have played so well and to such a high level as Bayern have for almost two years now. They’re totally dominant and it’ll be the same on Wednesday too. For a long time now Bayern have been able to dominate when they’ve been in a situation where they have to win at home.
DFB.de: How do you rate the current Manchester United side in comparison to past teams under Sir Alex Ferguson that were built around David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and Cristiano Ronaldo?
Matthäus: They’ve still got a lot of highly talented players in the squad, but haven’t been able to cope with Sir Alex Ferguson’s departure as smoothly as hoped. The new manager David Moyes is still getting used to treading in the huge footsteps he left behind. They also failed to bring through younger players in time when they were at their most successful, so at the moment we’re seeing a team that has passed its peak and it’s no coincidence that they’ve been struggling in all competitions.
DFB.de: Have Manchester United lost a bit of the aura and strength they used to have?
Matthäus: Man United still have a lot of very good, established internationals on their books, such as Wayne Rooney, Danny Welbeck, Antonia Valencia, Nemanja Vidic, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra and of course Robin van Persie, even if he’s still missing due to injury. However, it’s currently a different team to what we’ve been used to over the last 20 or 30 years. The fact that their fans cheer when they win a throw or a corner, as they did during the first leg against Bayern, is an indication of how their levels of expectation have fallen and that they don’t have a great deal of trust in the team anymore.
DFB.de: As treble winners, Bayern were the team to beat in European football at the start of the season and they seemed to be at the very top of their game. How do you rate them at this stage of the campaign?
Matthäus: They are still at the very top but in order to be considered ever better than last season they have to defend each of their three titles from last year. They’ve made a very good impression this season and have gone up a couple of per cent in terms of their playing style.
DFB.de: How would you compare Pep Guardiola to Jupp Heynckes as a coach?
Matthäus: Jupp Heynckes did a fantastic job last season and Pep Guardiola is continuing that work in his own way. He’s not copying Heynckes but is bringing in new ideas, which is why the team are playing well and have been successful so far. After winning the Bundesliga and the Club World Cup, Guardiola knows that he needs to win the two remaining titles in order to hold his own in comparisons with Heynckes.
DFB.de: Do you think that progress to a third successive Champions League final would mark the beginning of Bayern’s era of dominance in Europe, as many observers are predicting?
Matthäus: That would certainly mean they could justifiably be talked about in the same breath as the Franz Beckenbauer team from the 1970s. Winning the treble again wouldn‘t just herald the start of a new era in Germany, but across the whole continent.
DFB.de: Did you think Guardiola was going to be able to improve a treble-winning Bayern team straight away and with such success?
Matthäus: The way he’s done it deserves special praise. His character and past successes meant that the players respected him right from the off and they still do. The fact that he used the months leading up to him taking charge to learn German will definitely have made things easier for him at the beginning as a foreign coach. Heynckes set the bar extremely high for Guardiola, but if he can win the treble with Bayern over the next couple of months then he will have raised it once again.
DFB.de: Did you expect the Bayern players to understand, accept and apply Guardiola’s distinctive playing style so quickly?
Matthäus: It’s not like Guardiola’s asking them to play in positions they’re completely unused to. Of course a lot of people were left scratching their heads initially when he fielded Philipp Lahm in defensive midfield rather than at full-back, but the ability to spot that potential also shows what kind of talent a coach has. If my memory serves me correctly, it’s not an entirely new position for Lahm, but given the intelligence Philipp has out on the pitch, Guardiola created a position for him that I believe is perfectly tailored to Lahm’s qualities. On top of that, as captain he can have a lot more influence on the team in that position.
DFB.de: This next question is slightly unusual: Given Bayern’s new style of play, do you think football should copy basketball and introduce a ‘shot clock‘, which times how long is left before an attack needs to be finished?
Matthäus: That’s not such a bad question. It would no doubt create a lot more chances at both ends because teams would be forced to get forwards more quickly. But it would mean sacrificing a lot of other things that make the game what it is. Bayern’s style under Guardiola isn’t all about having a lot of possession but also about choosing the right moment to shoot. Playing the right ball at the right moment is part of the art that has helped Bayern be so successful.
DFB.de: Bayern lost their dress rehearsal for the match against Manchester United with a first Bundesliga defeat in 53 Bundesliga games away to Augsburg last Saturday. Do you think that will spur them on to an even greater performance in the real thing on Wednesday?
Matthäus: That metaphor would only really fit if Bayern, as in theatre, used the same personnel in the dress rehearsal and the main performance. That certainly won’t be the case on Wednesday.
DFB.de: How badly will the suspended duo of Bastian Schweinsteiger and Javi Martinez be missed, especially as fellow midfielder Thiago is out injured?
Matthäus: Every important player at Bayern can be replaced by someone of similar quality, which isn’t the case at most other clubs in Germany or in Europe. If Robert Lewandowski can’t play for Borussia Dortmund, they don’t have anyone else to bring in. At Bayern everyone - including Bastian Schweinsteiger - can be replaced, thanks to the quality running through the squad. However, if too many players are absent then Bayern can’t improve things during their games.
DFB.de: In concrete terms, what does that mean?
Matthäus: I think the problem for Bayern is that they don’t have enough quality on the bench at the moment. A starting line-up with Toni Kroos, Lahm and Mario Götze or Thomas Müller in midfield against Manchester United is as good as a midfield with Thiago and Schweinsteiger in it. But if Guardiola needs to bring on somebody during the game, what options does he have?
DFB.de: There is also the question of which system Guardiola will play: should he go with a false nine like Götze or Müller, or an out-and-out striker like Mario Mandzukic?
Matthäus: I’m certain Bayern will start with Mandzukic because the team need someone reliable and dangerous in the penalty area with the ability to hold the ball up, bring other players into the game and with an aerial presence. All of those things proved advantageous after Mandzukic was brought on as a substitute in Manchester. The question is who will play behind him: Götze or Müller?
DFB.de: The Bundesliga had four teams in the Champions League knockout rounds this season but now only Bayern have realistic chances of reaching the next stage. Did the Bundesliga get ahead of itself in thinking it had overtaken Spain and England?
Matthäus: The Bundesliga hasn’t overtaken yet but it’s on the right track. It will take a while before that happens as the teams behind Bayern and Dortmund came up short, like Schalke against Real Madrid and Bayer Leverkusen against Paris St. Germain. It’s not surprising for teams to lose against such big sides, but the manner in which they lost bothered me. Overall the Bundesliga is up there with the best leagues in Europe, but at the very top two other countries are stronger than we are with just Bayern and Dortmund.
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DFB.de: Who are your favourites to win the Champions League this season?
Matthäus: Teams like Real Madrid and Bayern stand out because of their playing styles and the quality of players in their squads. I wouldn’t underestimate Atletico Madrid or Paris St. Germain though.
DFB.de: What about FC Barcelona?
Matthäus: I hadn’t forgotten about Barcelona when naming those sides. They’re not the same Barcelona they were four, or five years ago but they’re definitely still strong enough to go a long way in the Champions League.
DFB.de: Looking beyond the Champions League now, Joachim Löw is likely to take seven Bayern players to the World Cup in Brazil this summer. How can he deal with the injury-enforced absences that have affected all areas of the team?
Matthäus: The team have played really well under Jogi Löw at the last few major tournaments and they’re rightly among the favourites to win the title this year. However, Löw will also be a little bit nervous about one or two positions, especially the full-back slots if he decides to play Lahm in defensive midfield. He’ll also keep a close eye on whether Miroslav Klose and Mario Gomez can rediscover their form in time.
DFB.de: Will that make Löw even more relieved to be able to call upon a core of successful Bayern players?
Matthäus: I’ll put it this way: Ilkay Gündogan would be very important, but will he be fit in time? He’d certainly want Mesut Özil if he’s at his best. And what about having a fit-again Sami Khedira? You would definitely want him, especially as it would mean he could use Lahm in one of the full back positions. After recovering well, Khedira needs match practice over the next few weeks and you can only hope that he gets it at Real Madrid, who are still in all competitions coming into the business end of the season, having got there without Khedira. At the moment you’d have nothing against having seven Bayern players in the starting line-up at the World Cup.
DFB.de: How far do you think Germany can go in Brazil?
Matthäus: The German Football Association will send the team to the tournament well-prepared and extremely well-organised, as always. However, aside from the weather conditions and huge amounts of travelling involved, I think there are several obstacles in their way. Teams like Chile, Uruguay and Colombia, as well as three or four others I could name, aren’t going to win the title but they could cause one or two of the favourites to trip up.
DFB.de: So who do you think will win it?
Matthäus: Of course I hope Germany do. But I think Brazil having home advantage and having won the Confederations Cup in 2013 puts them slightly ahead of Germany, Spain and Argentina in my eyes.
