You name it, he won it. As a player, Paul Breitner collected more trophies than many other professionals could ever aspire to, including a world champions' title, one European Championship, a European Cup, multiple German and Spanish championships as well as the German and Spanish FA Cup, respectively.
Practically hours after winning the 1974 World Cup final, he declared his retirement from the German national team after a spat with some of the German FA blazers. A world-class player, he left Germany for Spain where he was tasked with rejuvenating Real Madrid. Breitner then returned to Germany to re-join FC Bayern and celebrate his come-back in the national team shirt before he was voted German "Footballer of the Year" in 1981.
Today, the former full back and midfield dynamo is a wiry, enviably fit 61-year-old who part-times for UEFA as one of the ambassadors for the UEFA Champions League final scheduled to be played in Munich on 19 May 2012. In this interview with DFB.de's leading writer Wolfgang Tobien, Breitner looks ahead to the two UCL semi-final legs between Real Madrid and FC Bayern Munich, revisits his days in the Spanish capital, talks about the German national team, and makes his peace with the administrators of the game.
DFB.de: In the Munich Old Town Hall on Friday this week, you and UEFA President Michel Platini are going to be joined by the representatives of FC Barcelona for the UCL Cup Handover Ceremony. Which team do you think will be receiving it from out of Platini's hands on 19 May? Diego Maradona, for instance, is convinced it's going to be Bayern Munich.
Paul Breitner: Well, first we should find out just who asked Maradona that question! I am sure that had it been someone from Barcelona or Madrid, his response would have been quite different. It's all a matter of courtesy. And let's not forget there's a great deal of wishful thinking involved. Let me put it this way: If Bayern really do go through to the final, then neither I, nor any other of the 13 million staunch Bayern supporters will say that we'll come off the pitch as the losing team.
DFB.de: First of all, there's the little matter of surviving the semis against Real Madrid, a European club football semi-final fixture that first featured in 1976 and that included yourself – in a Real Madrid shirt…
Breitner: And I remember every minute of it! What I hated, though, was that I was unable to contribute to the team effort as I would have wished. A torn muscle prevented me from playing in the first-leg match (1-1) at Madrid, and for the second-leg match I was only 70 percent of my normal self and just couldn't really make any meaningful contribution. Bayern fully deserved their 2-0 win.
DFB.de: But you wouldn't object to history repeating itself, would you?
Breitner: I'm a fan of both teams, but everybody will understand that the greater part of my heart beats for Bayern. And as I generally don't believe in draws, I'd say the odds are 51:49 in Bayern's favour, which brings us back to that wishful thinking I was talking about!
DFB.de: In your capacity of UEFA ambassador, you've signed a pledge of neutrality. But you do have an idea of your own personal "dream final", haven't you?
Breitner: Yes, and it's one shared by many millions of fans world-wide, with Bayern playing against FC Barcelona, simply because the Catalans are in a league of their own. Bayern are one of two, maybe three teams capable of challenging their dominance. In a one-off final, you may be able to catch them with their guard down if they're at 85 percent and you're near 100. But try to beat them over two legs and it's an almost impossible task.
DFB.de: In 1974, you won the European Champions' Cup final with Bayern against Atlético Madrid. Your biggest success at club football level?
Breitner: Definitely. Because we had to play that re-match in Brussels, and because our 4-0 victory turned out to be a milestone for Bayern Munich.
DFB.de: That same year, you won the World Cup with Germany and signed a three-year contract at Real Madrid who at the time were the epitome of style and grandeur…
Breitner: Yes, it was a unique experience. In purely sporting terms, Real's star was shining a little less brightly, but the club had class, an incredible reputation, proving that they really were as "royal" as the name suggests. I spent the most wonderful three years of my life there.
DFB.de: Trophies apart, what was it about Madrid that made them so extraordinary?
Breitner: I'd put it down to one person – their president. Santiago Bernabéu was the only truly wise man I've ever been privileged to know, an absolutely outstanding personality. I am still grateful to him in many respects.
DFB.de: When you joined Real Madrid, they were languishing in no-man's land in the league…
Breitner: Yes, the season before I came they had finished in eighth position, with an 18-points gap between them and Barcelona, and remember - back then there were only two points for a win! Santiago Bernabéu took me aside for a private conversation, telling me that my mission would be to help him rejuvenate the squad and, even more importantly, shorten the Barca-Real gap to ten points in year one, five points in year two, and then go for the championship in the third year.
DFB.de: A mission that you more than accomplished.
Breitner: You can say that again! In my first season, we won the league with an eleven point lead over Barcelona. And the Copa del Rey. And another championship the year after.
DFB.de: Are you still in contact with either the club or the city?
Breitner: My wife and I are going to be there for the second-leg match next week. In fact, we go to Madrid three or four times a year. Also, Real have this wonderful way of inviting "all the family" once a year. For the club's centenary jubilee, every single player who had ever worn a Real shirt was invited to spend five days in Madrid. From 700 players, 500 actually made it, the oldest one a sprightly 93-year-old. If that isn't a show of class I don't know what is!
DFB.de: During your first two years at Madrid, the Breitner/Netzer partnership made all the difference in midfield. Interestingly, in Özil and Khedira there's another two Germany midfielders playing an important role almost four decades later. Any parallels?
Breitner: Yes and no, because we had different positions to start from. Günter Netzer and I were fortunate in that, at the time, Real were a depressed side looking for a new approach, fresh ideas, a different philosophy. The fact that we could provide just that clearly worked for us. Our way of playing the game was fully, even thankfully embraced from the word go. Mesut Özil is an excellent footballer who's still honing his skills as part of an outstanding team, but Günter Netzer was at the height of his potential. In my first year at Real, he played like I've never seen anybody else, except Franz Beckenbauer perhaps. Günter's leadership on the pitch was absolutely gigantic, superior even to what he did for Germany in 1972 and 1973.
DFB.de: Before you became a midfielder, Bayern coach Udo Lattek had "retrained" you from striker to left back, making you a kind of model for all the defending/attacking full backs who would follow.
Breitner: That's right, but it was really born out of necessity. Udo Lattek knew me well from his time as Germany youth coach, and when one day – I think we were playing away to Hanover – we were short of a left back, he had me fill that gap. I soon developed my own style, and when I now watch Philipp Lahm play, I would say that Philipp is perfectly interpreting a role that I, back in 1971, was only just "inventing" for myself. I was never one for going in with a sliding tackling or hammering the ball into the rafters. Actually, as a defender I never collected any yellow card for foul play, very much like Philipp Lahm today.
DFB.de: In 1972, Germany won the European Championship, and many people still claim that team was even better than the 1974 World Cup winners. Do you agree, having featured in both tournaments?
Breitner: Yes, and I'd even go as far as saying that the 1972 team was the best German side since the famous Miracle of Berne team in 1954. On the other hand, comparisons are loath. Just like you can't really compare a racing car from 1972 with one built in 2012. Having said that, one aspect does apply…
DFB.de: Namely?
Breitner: The level of dominance exerted by any one team in a generation. And if you define this as a five-year time span, you'll find that since then, no German national team has dominated world football in quite the same way as we did in 1972. Similar to the way Barcelona are and have been dominating club football world-wide now.
DFB.de: Do you think that this year, Joachim Löw and his team will be able to repeat the triumph of 40 years ago?
Breitner: For my money, Spain still are top favourites. But anyway, I'd rate a European championship as a kind of stopover between two World Cups, so that come Brazil 2014, the German national team will be one of two top European favourites, alongside Spain.
DFB.de: Back to the UEFA Champions League. Surely you're going to be at the Munich Allianz Arena tonight. What exactly does a UEFA ambassador do on match day?
Breitner: I'm very glad that UEFA regularly use me to represent them in what is called the Champions Club – a major sky box seating 100-150 guests. I take part in pre-match talks and panel discussions, or they find a role for me at the draw events.
DFB.de: Today you're one of UEFA's ambassadors – quite a change from the anti-establishment revolutionary you once were, wouldn't you say?
Breitner: Well, that "revolutionary activist" thing was always blown out of proportion. It's just that when I was young, I didn't accept authority just for authority's sake. My parents had brought me up that way, questioning things. For example, when I joined Bayern Munich and somebody ordered me 'do this or do that' but couldn't tell me why, I just wouldn't take it. And in 1970, that kind of attitude deserved the "revolutionary" tag!
DFB.de: People even called you "every administrator's enemy".
Breitner: Yes, that was the blanket accusation I heard time and again. But nothing could be further from the truth. I knew then as I know now that without people volunteering their time, football could practically pack up. All I did was offer resistance to those who stubbornly and dogmatically wanted me to obey orders, often against better knowledge. I measure a person's character by the readiness to admit mistakes, correct them, and thus show that he or she is prepared to learn and change.
DFB.de: And this kind of learning process has allowed you to accept the role of UEFA ambassador?
Breitner: I'm fortunate in that most of the time, I can afford to only do things that I can fully identify with and that are rewarding in one way or another. Which is what the Champions League, and specifically the final in Munich, are all about! I mean you can win a hundred caps and play in umpteen finals without ever getting an inside view of FIFA or UEFA. This year, I have been privileged to look behind the scenes at UEFA, meeting lots of active, constructive, and positive people with a great sense of humour. Working with them is a fantastic experience for me, and I'm enjoying every minute of it.
created by dfb
[bild1]
You name it, he won it. As a player, Paul Breitner collected more trophies than many other professionals could ever aspire to, including a world champions' title, one European Championship, a European Cup, multiple German and Spanish championships as well as the German and Spanish FA Cup, respectively.
Practically hours after winning the 1974 World Cup final, he declared his retirement from the German national team after a spat with some of the German FA blazers. A world-class player, he left Germany for Spain where he was tasked with rejuvenating Real Madrid. Breitner then returned to Germany to re-join FC Bayern and celebrate his come-back in the national team shirt before he was voted German "Footballer of the Year" in 1981.
Today, the former full back and midfield dynamo is a wiry, enviably fit 61-year-old who part-times for UEFA as one of the ambassadors for the UEFA Champions League final scheduled to be played in Munich on 19 May 2012. In this interview with DFB.de's leading writer Wolfgang Tobien, Breitner looks ahead to the two UCL semi-final legs between Real Madrid and FC Bayern Munich, revisits his days in the Spanish capital, talks about the German national team, and makes his peace with the administrators of the game.
DFB.de: In the Munich Old Town Hall on Friday this week, you and UEFA President Michel Platini are going to be joined by the representatives of FC Barcelona for the UCL Cup Handover Ceremony. Which team do you think will be receiving it from out of Platini's hands on 19 May? Diego Maradona, for instance, is convinced it's going to be Bayern Munich.
Paul Breitner: Well, first we should find out just who asked Maradona that question! I am sure that had it been someone from Barcelona or Madrid, his response would have been quite different. It's all a matter of courtesy. And let's not forget there's a great deal of wishful thinking involved. Let me put it this way: If Bayern really do go through to the final, then neither I, nor any other of the 13 million staunch Bayern supporters will say that we'll come off the pitch as the losing team.
DFB.de: First of all, there's the little matter of surviving the semis against Real Madrid, a European club football semi-final fixture that first featured in 1976 and that included yourself – in a Real Madrid shirt…
Breitner: And I remember every minute of it! What I hated, though, was that I was unable to contribute to the team effort as I would have wished. A torn muscle prevented me from playing in the first-leg match (1-1) at Madrid, and for the second-leg match I was only 70 percent of my normal self and just couldn't really make any meaningful contribution. Bayern fully deserved their 2-0 win.
DFB.de: But you wouldn't object to history repeating itself, would you?
Breitner: I'm a fan of both teams, but everybody will understand that the greater part of my heart beats for Bayern. And as I generally don't believe in draws, I'd say the odds are 51:49 in Bayern's favour, which brings us back to that wishful thinking I was talking about!
DFB.de: In your capacity of UEFA ambassador, you've signed a pledge of neutrality. But you do have an idea of your own personal "dream final", haven't you?
Breitner: Yes, and it's one shared by many millions of fans world-wide, with Bayern playing against FC Barcelona, simply because the Catalans are in a league of their own. Bayern are one of two, maybe three teams capable of challenging their dominance. In a one-off final, you may be able to catch them with their guard down if they're at 85 percent and you're near 100. But try to beat them over two legs and it's an almost impossible task.
DFB.de: In 1974, you won the European Champions' Cup final with Bayern against Atlético Madrid. Your biggest success at club football level?
Breitner: Definitely. Because we had to play that re-match in Brussels, and because our 4-0 victory turned out to be a milestone for Bayern Munich.
DFB.de: That same year, you won the World Cup with Germany and signed a three-year contract at Real Madrid who at the time were the epitome of style and grandeur…
Breitner: Yes, it was a unique experience. In purely sporting terms, Real's star was shining a little less brightly, but the club had class, an incredible reputation, proving that they really were as "royal" as the name suggests. I spent the most wonderful three years of my life there.
DFB.de: Trophies apart, what was it about Madrid that made them so extraordinary?
Breitner: I'd put it down to one person – their president. Santiago Bernabéu was the only truly wise man I've ever been privileged to know, an absolutely outstanding personality. I am still grateful to him in many respects.
DFB.de: When you joined Real Madrid, they were languishing in no-man's land in the league…
Breitner: Yes, the season before I came they had finished in eighth position, with an 18-points gap between them and Barcelona, and remember - back then there were only two points for a win! Santiago Bernabéu took me aside for a private conversation, telling me that my mission would be to help him rejuvenate the squad and, even more importantly, shorten the Barca-Real gap to ten points in year one, five points in year two, and then go for the championship in the third year.
DFB.de: A mission that you more than accomplished.
Breitner: You can say that again! In my first season, we won the league with an eleven point lead over Barcelona. And the Copa del Rey. And another championship the year after.
DFB.de: Are you still in contact with either the club or the city?
Breitner: My wife and I are going to be there for the second-leg match next week. In fact, we go to Madrid three or four times a year. Also, Real have this wonderful way of inviting "all the family" once a year. For the club's centenary jubilee, every single player who had ever worn a Real shirt was invited to spend five days in Madrid. From 700 players, 500 actually made it, the oldest one a sprightly 93-year-old. If that isn't a show of class I don't know what is!
DFB.de: During your first two years at Madrid, the Breitner/Netzer partnership made all the difference in midfield. Interestingly, in Özil and Khedira there's another two Germany midfielders playing an important role almost four decades later. Any parallels?
Breitner: Yes and no, because we had different positions to start from. Günter Netzer and I were fortunate in that, at the time, Real were a depressed side looking for a new approach, fresh ideas, a different philosophy. The fact that we could provide just that clearly worked for us. Our way of playing the game was fully, even thankfully embraced from the word go. Mesut Özil is an excellent footballer who's still honing his skills as part of an outstanding team, but Günter Netzer was at the height of his potential. In my first year at Real, he played like I've never seen anybody else, except Franz Beckenbauer perhaps. Günter's leadership on the pitch was absolutely gigantic, superior even to what he did for Germany in 1972 and 1973.
DFB.de: Before you became a midfielder, Bayern coach Udo Lattek had "retrained" you from striker to left back, making you a kind of model for all the defending/attacking full backs who would follow.
Breitner: That's right, but it was really born out of necessity. Udo Lattek knew me well from his time as Germany youth coach, and when one day – I think we were playing away to Hanover – we were short of a left back, he had me fill that gap. I soon developed my own style, and when I now watch Philipp Lahm play, I would say that Philipp is perfectly interpreting a role that I, back in 1971, was only just "inventing" for myself. I was never one for going in with a sliding tackling or hammering the ball into the rafters. Actually, as a defender I never collected any yellow card for foul play, very much like Philipp Lahm today.
DFB.de: In 1972, Germany won the European Championship, and many people still claim that team was even better than the 1974 World Cup winners. Do you agree, having featured in both tournaments?
Breitner: Yes, and I'd even go as far as saying that the 1972 team was the best German side since the famous Miracle of Berne team in 1954. On the other hand, comparisons are loath. Just like you can't really compare a racing car from 1972 with one built in 2012. Having said that, one aspect does apply…
DFB.de: Namely?
Breitner: The level of dominance exerted by any one team in a generation. And if you define this as a five-year time span, you'll find that since then, no German national team has dominated world football in quite the same way as we did in 1972. Similar to the way Barcelona are and have been dominating club football world-wide now.
DFB.de: Do you think that this year, Joachim Löw and his team will be able to repeat the triumph of 40 years ago?
Breitner: For my money, Spain still are top favourites. But anyway, I'd rate a European championship as a kind of stopover between two World Cups, so that come Brazil 2014, the German national team will be one of two top European favourites, alongside Spain.
[bild2]
DFB.de: Back to the UEFA Champions League. Surely you're going to be at the Munich Allianz Arena tonight. What exactly does a UEFA ambassador do on match day?
Breitner: I'm very glad that UEFA regularly use me to represent them in what is called the Champions Club – a major sky box seating 100-150 guests. I take part in pre-match talks and panel discussions, or they find a role for me at the draw events.
DFB.de: Today you're one of UEFA's ambassadors – quite a change from the anti-establishment revolutionary you once were, wouldn't you say?
Breitner: Well, that "revolutionary activist" thing was always blown out of proportion. It's just that when I was young, I didn't accept authority just for authority's sake. My parents had brought me up that way, questioning things. For example, when I joined Bayern Munich and somebody ordered me 'do this or do that' but couldn't tell me why, I just wouldn't take it. And in 1970, that kind of attitude deserved the "revolutionary" tag!
DFB.de: People even called you "every administrator's enemy".
Breitner: Yes, that was the blanket accusation I heard time and again. But nothing could be further from the truth. I knew then as I know now that without people volunteering their time, football could practically pack up. All I did was offer resistance to those who stubbornly and dogmatically wanted me to obey orders, often against better knowledge. I measure a person's character by the readiness to admit mistakes, correct them, and thus show that he or she is prepared to learn and change.
DFB.de: And this kind of learning process has allowed you to accept the role of UEFA ambassador?
Breitner: I'm fortunate in that most of the time, I can afford to only do things that I can fully identify with and that are rewarding in one way or another. Which is what the Champions League, and specifically the final in Munich, are all about! I mean you can win a hundred caps and play in umpteen finals without ever getting an inside view of FIFA or UEFA. This year, I have been privileged to look behind the scenes at UEFA, meeting lots of active, constructive, and positive people with a great sense of humour. Working with them is a fantastic experience for me, and I'm enjoying every minute of it.
