Beckenbauer: "Lahm will overtake Matthäus"

On Tuesday, Germany contest their final 2014 World Cup qualifying fixture away to Sweden in Stockholm (live on ZDF from 20.45). Back in 1965, Franz Beckenbauer made his international debut in the same place against the same opponents, also in World Cup qualifying. Tuesday’s clash will also see Philipp Lahm earn his 103rd cap, taking him level with the Kaiser in the "Centurions’ Club". Intriguingly, both Munich-born players featured in the starting line-up in every one of their 103 appearances, a record only bettered by Jürgen Kohler (105 appearances).

In Wolfgang Tobien’s DFB.de exclusive interview, Beckenbauer recalls his debut in Stockholm, examines the reasons behind Philipp Lahm’s consistent long-term excellence, analyses his chances of becoming his country’s most-capped player, and lists the similarities between himself and the current national team captain, although the Kaiser also notes the significant differences between the pair.

DFB.de: Sweden, Stockholm, the district of Solna, Rasunda Stadium, World Cup qualifying - does that remind you of anything, Franz Beckenbauer?

Franz Beckenbauer: Of course, my first international in 1965. I still remember it well.

DFB.de: Because you never forget your first time?

Beckenbauer: More because it was so very special, one of the most important matches of my career. We had to win in order to qualify for the 1966 World Cup. Thankfully, Uwe Seeler made a comeback and he wrapped it up with a goal to make the final score 2-1. That paved the way for my career in the national team, and I took to the global stage for the first time at the World Cup in England the following year.

DFB.de: And that was the start of an illustrious career. Were you surprised that Helmut Schön picked you for the starting line-up in Stockholm, just days after your 20th birthday, and with only six Bundesliga appearances to your name following Bayern’s promotion the previous summer?

Beckenbauer: It was certainly very courageous of him to put his faith in me for such a crucial match. Nor was I the only newcomer - Peter Grosser also made his debut. It was Rudi Brunnenmeier’s second appearance, and Horst Höttges and Eia Krämer hadn’t played very often either. But we had a good blend in Stockholm, the fresh faces combined with the experienced war horses, starting with Hans Tilkowski in goal. Helmut Schön did everything right for that match.

DFB.de: Staying with your international debut in Stockholm, what are your lasting impressions?

Beckenbauer: That you could always count on the experienced players like Horst Szymaniak, Uwe Seeler, Karl-Heinz Schnellinger or Willi Schulz. They made you feel you had something solid to fall back on all the time, which was enormously helpful for someone making his first appearance, especially in such a crucial away match.

DFB.de: On Tuesday, in the city where you made your debut, and also in World Cup qualifying against Sweden, Philipp Lahm is set to earn his 103rd international cap and draw level with you in the "Centurions’ Club". Two Munich footballing icons together - it’s a good story, isn’t it?

Beckenbauer: I find it a little bit eerie actually. All I can really do is congratulate Philipp on passing 100 international appearances. Obviously, the national team play far more matches these days, but Philipp has his very individual character to thank for making it to a century of appearances. He’s nimble and has good vision, he reads the game brilliantly, and he’s intelligent, so he’s in serious danger of injury much less than some other players.

DFB.de: 103 caps - what lies behind that figure, what does it stand for?

Beckenbauer: Philipp Lahm embodies everything that makes a player capable of reaching this high number of international appearances. It stands for consistency, and for good performances at club level, because you won’t be called up to the national team otherwise. It’s definitely not easy to make it into the national team these days, because of the sheer number of good players, and the unbelievable depth in terms of ability. It means you have to be a very special player to earn a call-up.

DFB.de: And after that?

Beckenbauer: Then it gets easier. Once you’ve actually made it into the national team and you’ve held onto the shirt, it’s a little easier to make it to 100 or more international caps. It was barely possible in the past because there were far fewer games every year. In the 1960s and on into the 70s, ten or more internationals were the exception. As a rule, nowadays it’s 15 or more, especially in years with a major tournament. During my 12 years in the national team, I was lucky enough to play in almost every international - lucky in the sense that I was spared injury and therefore maintained my form.

DFB.de: Which is why a handful of top-quality internationals, such as Michael Ballack on 98 appearances or before him Karl-Heinz Rummenigge on 95, came up short just before making it to 100.

Beckenbauer: Exactly. That’s why I think it’s particularly impressive in the case of Philipp Lahm, because he overcame a severe setback in 2005 and won back his regular place straight away. He only made his national team debut in 2004, but then lost the whole of 2005 to serious injury and didn’t make a single international appearance. As I said before, when he made his comeback, he was definitely helped by his physical stature. The more agile and nimble you are, the easier it is to find your feet again.

DFB.de: What are the particular strengths and abilities that have allowed Lahm to perform over the long-term?

Beckenbauer: You have to say it’s his versatility and footballing intelligence. Philipp Lahm is a role model, and a jack of all trades too. Look at his outstanding performances at the moment in central defensive midfield for Bayern. And there’s his consistency too. I can’t think of a single other player who’s been as consistently good at the highest level over a period of years. Not a single one! Obviously, even his form wobbles every now and then, but with him, the peaks and troughs are minimal and only obvious to experts.

DFB.de: Based on his first international appearance, could you have predicted Philipp Lahm’s subsequent career?

Beckenbauer: Of course you couldn’t. Just like me when I made my debut in 1965, he had only just turned 20 and had made a handful of Bundesliga appearances. There are very few players where you can predict a stellar career right from the start. It was the case with Pelé or Johan Cruyff. Compared to them, Philipp is obviously nowhere near as extravagant, nor is he a goalscorer. His biggest strength and quality is his balanced combination of skills in every essential footballing area. I don’t see any weaknesses. He never has a bad game, regardless of where you choose to deploy his versatility. The only position you’d never consider him for is goalkeeper. He’s too small for that (laughs).

DFB.de: Lahm’s consistency is reflected in the fact he’s been in the starting line-up for all his international appearances so far. Only you and Jürgen Kohler have managed that up to now. Have all his team managers and national coaches shown special faith in him?

Beckenbauer: Certainly. At the beginning it was Rudi Völler, then Jürgen Klinsmann, and now Jogi Löw. They have always known what he brought and brings to the team. You’ve always been able to depend on his reliability and determination. Looked at the other way round, you sense Philipp Lahm enjoys playing for his national team and is delighted to do so. Of course, that’s partly because it functions so well, and Jogi Löw does an outstanding job.

DFB.de: Another similarity between the two of you is the captaincy. How does he interpret the role compared to you?

Beckenbauer: As the captain, he’s a real leader who sets an example by doing. As I’ve said, he’s an authentic role model in terms of fighting spirit and footballing skill. I was arguably a little louder and spikier as captain.

DFB.de: How would you describe Lahm’s leadership style for the national team?

Beckenbauer: You can only become and remain national team captain if you continue to perform well. Philipp doesn’t catch the eye with gestures and by raising his voice on the field of play, but he’s still absolutely capable of asserting his authority. He’s a little guy but he has a massive personality, made credible by always performing and giving convincing displays. And that’s certainly not easy nowadays. There were vast differences in ability in the squads of the past, but today’s team is packed with equally outstanding players from top to bottom.

DFB.de: Which of Lahm’s performances for Germany do you still remember the most?

Beckenbauer: Philipp Lahm has performed at the highest level in all his internationals, so I can hardly pick out one match which especially sticks in the memory. Obviously, I’ll never forget the opening match of the 2006 World Cup against Costa Rica in Munich. The World Cup Organising Committee and I were all hoping our team would make a good start. Philipp set the whole thing in motion with his fulminating opening goal. In this way, he contributed to the tournament going so well, both as a sporting spectacle and in terms of the atmosphere for everyone there.

DFB.de: You were a highly versatile defensive player yourself. We keep coming up with similarities between the two of you…

Beckenbauer: Although I generally played in the centre and he more often operates out wide. I think I do regard myself as quite different, although Philipp is also a player who likes to get forward. He’s a provider who likes to set up the forwards, especially the strikers, and get them on the ball. So thinking about it in more detail, there are indeed a number of similarities in our fundamental approach to the game. And now he’s playing in defensive midfield for Bayern, there are even more than before.

DFB.de: Do you think Lahm can go on to become Germany’s new most-capped player?

Beckenbauer: Philipp Lahm can already look back on a fantastic career with Bayern and Germany. Most importantly, he’s only 29, so he has any number of successful seasons still ahead of him. I believe he will become Germany’s most-capped player within the next four years. If there’s one man capable of overtaking Lothar Matthäus and his 150 caps, it’s Lahm. Obviously, with Klose already on 130 appearances, he has a big chance too. But Miro is already 35, and we don’t know whether he’ll stay on in the national team after the World Cup. In my opinion, Philipp will in any case become his country’s most-capped player at some point. He’s the one I consider most likely to do it.

DFB.de: When you made your debut in 1965, it was a case of do-or-die in World Cup qualifying against Sweden. By contrast, Löw’s team are already through to the World Cup prior to Tuesday’s clash in Stockholm. Is there nothing more than pride at stake?

Beckenbauer: I hope our team remains totally focused and plays to win. In the back of my mind, I’d been hoping we’d be helping the Austrians to join us in qualifying for the World Cup. Unfortunately, that was all taken care of four minutes from time in Sweden last Friday.

DFB.de: In comparison to you personally, your fellow Centurions’ Club member Philipp Lahm lacks a crowning glory to his career.

Beckenbauer: He’s won everything there is to win with Bayern. But despite good performances at recent EUROs and World Cups, Philipp Lahm has missed out on the greatest international trophies. He and his team-mates will regroup and take another shot at it in Brazil next summer. I’d say the chances of everything finally working out are very high. If there’s one European team capable of becoming world champions in South America next year, it’s not holders Spain. It’ll be our team, who I expect to be at the high point of their development - under their outstanding captain Philipp Lahm.